Adopting a marketing mindset in L&D

What can L&D teams learn from marketing? As it turns out – quite a lot. In this podcast episode, we’re joined by Bianca Baumann and Mike Taylor, two learning experts passionate about applying marketing principles to learning design. From learner personas to engagement strategies, they explain how a marketing mindset can help L&D teams better connect with audiences, drive meaningful impact, and prove value to stakeholders.

Watch the full podcast video

Top tips for adopting a marketing mindset in L&D

Don’t have time to listen now? Here’s a quick summary of what you’ll learn in this episode:

• Know your learners before you build – Effective learning starts with understanding who you’re designing for, just like in marketing.
• Design learning as a journey, not a one-off – Replace one-and-done courses with multi-touch learning campaigns.
• Keep it simple, relevant, and emotional – Use the power of storytelling and emotional resonance to engage learners and make content stick.
• Market your learning – Great content is wasted if no one sees it – so promote your learning like a product.
• Let data drive design decisions – Marketing teams live by their metrics. L&D teams should too.

1. Know your learners before you build

Before marketing teams create a campaign, they start with deep audience research – often crafting detailed personas. L&D can borrow this tactic to better understand learners’ needs, motivations, and challenges. By interviewing employees and analyzing available data, you can build learner personas that shape more targeted, relevant, and empathetic experiences.

“You really want to talk to your learners, your end users, because they will tell you exactly what they need and what they’re looking for.”

2. Design learning as a journey, not a one-off

Effective marketing campaigns are never just one email or one ad – they’re strategically sequenced experiences. The same goes for learning. Bianca and Mike advocate for learner journeys that unfold over time and build real capabilities. This approach shifts L&D away from disconnected courses and toward cohesive, supportive campaigns.

“It’s a campaign mindset versus the one-and-done thinking. Marketers understand you’ve got to talk to people, go where they are. And it’s about those multiple touches over time – something they can revisit when they need it.”

3. Keep it simple, relevant, and emotional

Information alone doesn’t drive action – emotion does. Marketing teams know how to use stories, visuals, and emotional triggers to connect with people and change behavior. L&D teams can use the same tools to make content resonate and stay with learners long after the module ends.

“If you just give people information, they’re going to forget it. But if you create situations where learners can see themselves in it, and they relate to it, that’s the sort of stuff that will stick with you.”

4. Market your learning

Even the best learning content won’t make an impact if learners don’t know about it – or don’t care. L&D teams must promote their programs, tapping into the same channels and strategies marketers use. Think campaign teasers, targeted messaging, and building anticipation around launch moments.

“Learning is the most valuable product that your company has… and we have to sell it so that people understand the value.”

5. Let data drive design decisions

Marketing teams don’t just guess – they test, iterate, and refine based on real metrics. L&D teams can build similar feedback loops by tracking engagement, evaluating leading indicators, and tying learning objectives to business goals. The result? More effective learning and better conversations with stakeholders.

“It’s really important to start with data to understand what’s going on. And then based on that, figure out what you need to change, what needs to be updated, and how to improve it.”

About Bianca & Mike

Bianca is VP of Learning Solutions and Innovation at Ardent and a thought leader in combining marketing principles with instructional design. Mike is a learning consultant at Nationwide with a background in digital marketing. Together, they co-authored the upcoming book Think Like a Marketer and Train Like an L&D Pro – a practical guide to transforming learning with a marketing mindset. You can order your copy of the book here.

Connect with Bianca on LinkedIn.

Connect with Mike on LinkedIn.

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Why learning needs to be organizational

Organizational learning isn’t just a nice idea – it’s essential to staying resilient, productive, and people-centered. But what does it really look like in action? In this podcast episode, we’re joined by Dr. Nigel Paine, a learning and leadership expert, to explore how organizations can shift away from individual performance and toward collective learning. Nigel shares his vision for learning cultures built on trust, team connection, and the “organizational brain”.

Watch the full podcast video

Top tips for creating a culture of collective learning

Don’t have time to listen now? Here’s a quick summary of what you’ll learn in this episode:

• Shift the focus from individual to collective learning – Organizations often invest in individuals but fail to retain knowledge when those individuals leave.
• Build your organizational brain – Learning happens in the space between people. Encourage connection and collaboration to grow shared intelligence.
• Remove fear from the workplace – A psychologically safe environment is key to encouraging questions, feedback, and collaborative problem-solving.
• Treat learning as a team sport – True learning organizations value teams over individuals and use collaboration to solve problems and build skills.
• Demonstrate the business value of learning culture – From higher productivity to transformation readiness, the benefits are tangible.
• Embrace skills-based thinking over rigid job roles – Break away from job descriptions and empower teams to flex and develop the skills they really need.

1. Shift the focus from individual to collective learning

Organizations that focus too heavily on individual talent risk losing valuable knowledge when people move on. Nigel encourages leaders to embed learning into the organization itself – creating systems that support shared understanding and knowledge continuity. By shifting focus from individual success to collective growth, organizations become more resilient and adaptable.

“We are focusing far, far too much on individuals… and we have defocused on the collective, the way people work together, and therefore we defocus on the organization.”

2. Build your organizational brain

An organization becomes smarter when its people are well-connected. Nigel uses the “organizational brain” to describe shared learning that happens between people – not just within them. Like neurons in the brain, strong internal connections help teams share insights, collaborate effectively, and adapt quickly. The more connected your people are, the more intelligent and agile your organization becomes.

“You are smart not because of the number of neurons you have, but because of the connections… it’s the connections that matter.”

3. Remove fear from the workplace

Fear holds people back from learning and collaborating. Nigel stresses that psychological safety is essential – people need to feel secure enough to ask for help, admit mistakes, and take risks. When fear is removed, trust grows, and teams are empowered to solve problems together.

“You cannot learn if you’re frightened. You cannot learn if you think you’re going to be humiliated, and you cannot learn if you think you’re going to get the sack.”

4. Treat learning as a team sport

Learning thrives in teams. When people learn together, they solve problems more effectively, share strengths, and build stronger team cultures. Peer learning and communities of practice play a key role in making learning a shared responsibility.

“The bottom unit of productivity is a team. Not an individual. You’ve got to accept that there are team challenges, team objectives, team bonuses, and not focus on the individuals.”

5. Demonstrate the business value of learning culture

A strong learning culture drives business performance. Nigel explains that when learning is embedded into everyday work, productivity, resilience, and transformation readiness all improve. L&D must link learning initiatives clearly to these outcomes.

“If you create a learning culture in your organization, you’ll have more productivity, more resilience, and you’ll be able to transform faster and more efficiently.”

6. Embrace skills-based thinking over rigid job roles

Rigid job descriptions limit growth. Nigel promotes a skills-first mindset, where teams are empowered to develop new capabilities as needs evolve. This agility helps organizations stay responsive and future-ready.

“If you want a skills-based organization, you’ve got to split the size of the toothpaste tube and let the toothpaste run out.”

About Nigel

Nigel is a leading thinker on leadership, learning, and organizational development. A former Head of Learning at the BBC, he now works with organizations around the world to promote positive change and build stronger learning cultures. He is the author of multiple books, including The Great Reset, and co-hosts the Learning Now TV channel.

Connect with Nigel on LinkedIn.

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Using AI in L&D today, to be ready for tomorrow

AI isn’t just around the corner – it’s already transforming the way we work and learn. But how can Learning and Development (L&D) teams make the most of it today? In this podcast episode , we’re joined by Egle Vinauskaite, a learning technology and AI consultant, to uncover the real impact of AI on workplace learning. Egle unravels the biggest opportunities, challenges, and common mistakes L&D teams face when integrating AI into their strategies.

Watch the full podcast video

Top tips for using AI in L&D today

Don’t have time to listen now? Here’s a quick summary of what you’ll learn in this episode:

• Focus on the problem, not the tool – Focus on real challenges first, then explore how AI can help solve them.
• Make AI a strategic effort – To leverage AI fully, move beyond basic AI use and tackle investment and planning barriers head on.
• Shift your mindset – More than just tools and skills, AI adoption requires a cultural shift that embraces experimentation and innovation.
• Uncover and scale AI innovation – Identify existing AI experiments and scale them into impactful initiatives.
• Augment instead of automating – Use AI to support, not replace, human expertise.
• Step up and lead AI adoption – Take ownership of AI to secure L&D’s future role.

1. Focus on the problem, not the tool

Instead of jumping on the latest AI trends, L&D teams should begin by identifying critical pain points in learning processes. Only then should they explore how AI can be applied to address those challenges effectively.

“Start with a problem, maybe even a bold one. Otherwise, you’ll be overwhelmed by the sheer number of AI possibilities and tools out there.”

2. Make AI a strategic effort

Most L&D teams use AI in basic ways, but adoption significantly drops when it comes to more complex applications like AI-driven personalization and skills intelligence. The key reason? Moving beyond simple AI use often requires new skills, additional budget, and integration with other business systems.

“We found it notoriously difficult to find organizations that have gone beyond using AI for simple tasks. Every step further requires more resources, skills, or relationships.”

3. Shift your mindset

While data privacy and security concerns are frequently cited as blockers, the biggest challenge to AI adoption is mindset. Organizations need to foster a culture that encourages innovation, experimentation, and the strategic integration of AI.

“Do you as a leader have a strategic vision for AI in L&D? Can you make that case to the rest of the organization? Is the organization itself ready? These are the real blockers and enablers.”

4. Uncover and scale AI innovation

AI experimentation is already happening within organizations – often informally. L&D teams should identify where AI is already being used by employees and build on those insights to scale AI-driven learning initiatives.

“Your people have been using AI for years, often under the radar. Rather than starting from scratch, uncover those existing innovations and turn them into formalized best practices.”

5. Augment instead of automating

AI works best when it enhances human expertise rather than replacing it. L&D teams should focus on using AI as a support tool to streamline content creation, personalize learning experiences, and free up time for more strategic initiatives.

“AI is at its best when it augments and not automates your work. We need to understand both our processes and what good looks like to use AI effectively.”

6. Step up and lead AI adoption

L&D teams are uniquely positioned to help organizations navigate AI adoption, yet many are not included in strategic AI discussions. To stay relevant, L&D must take ownership of AI literacy and support AI-driven workplace transformation.

“L&D must take ownership of AI adoption to remain a vital part of the organization. If it fails to step up, other departments will lead the charge, and L&D risks being sidelined.”

About Egle

Egle is a Learning, AI, and Technology Consultant specializing in AI-driven learning strategies and workplace transformation. As Learning Strategist and Director of learning innovation studio, Nodes, she helps organizations integrate cutting-edge technologies into their L&D strategies. She also co-authors industry reports and shares expert insights on AI adoption in corporate learning.

Connect with Egle on LinkedIn.

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Enjoyed the podcast? Don’t forget to rate it in your favorite podcast app. Thanks for tuning in – we’ll see you next time!

How to shift to a skills-based framework

The world of workplace learning is changing. Traditional competency models are being challenged, and organizations are shifting towards skills-based learning. But what does this shift really mean, and how can businesses implement it effectively? In this episode, Nick Shackleton-Jones, CEO and Founder of Shackleton Consulting, joins us to discuss the key aspects of skills-based learning, its impact on talent development, and practical steps for making the transition.

Watch the full podcast video

Top tips for implementing skills-based learning

Don’t have time to listen now? Here’s a quick summary of what you’ll learn in this episode:

• The need for skills-based learning – Competency models often fail to reflect real-world tasks, making skills-based learning a more effective approach.
• Defining and identifying key skills – Organizations need to break roles down into essential tasks and identify the skills required for each.
• The role of practical, application-based learning – Learning should be hands-on and focused on real-world application rather than abstract theories.
• Overcoming barriers to change – Many organizations resist change due to convenience, but shifting to skills-based learning has long-term benefits.
• The importance of experiential learning – Training programs should incorporate hands-on experiences for better skill retention.
• Small steps to start the shift – Transitioning doesn’t have to be overwhelming; organizations can start by hiring based on skills rather than degrees.

1. The need for skills-based learning

Competency models have long been a staple in HR and learning and development (L&D). However, they often fail to reflect the actual tasks and skills required for success in a role. The shift to skills-based learning focuses on the specific abilities employees need to perform their jobs effectively.

“The competency model doesn’t really relate to the skills and the tasks that people have to do on the job, and that corrupts every aspect of the three processes – recruitment, promotion and L&D.”

2. Defining and identifying key skills

One of the biggest challenges in moving to a skills-based approach is identifying which skills matter most. Organizations need to break roles down into essential tasks and map the necessary skills to each task.

“If I actually said to organizations, what are the top twenty tasks your leaders have to do? They would say, well, we don’t know. And that’s a big piece of work then to figure that out.”

3. The role of practical, application-based learning

A key component of skills-based learning is ensuring training is hands-on and applicable. Rather than delivering abstract learning modules, organizations must create opportunities for employees to practice skills in real-world scenarios.

“You should go to a leadership training course and practice some of the things you actually have to do as a leader, and the resources should help you with that.”

4. Overcoming barriers to change

Shifting to skills-based learning isn’t without challenges. Many organizations hesitate due to the time and effort required, preferring the convenience of pre-packaged competency libraries. However, making the transition can have long-term benefits.

“What’s stopping people making that change is just the convenience. Often you’re running on a really tight budget, you’ve got a really small number of people.”

5. The importance of experiential learning

Skills-based learning is most effective when employees can apply what they’ve learned in realistic situations. Training programs should incorporate hands-on experiences, from simulations to real-world projects.

“A good program does two things: It gives them a chance to practice those things, which is why it’s experiential, and it gives them the resources that they need.”

6. Small steps to start the shift

Transitioning to a skills-based approach doesn’t have to be overwhelming. Organizations can start small, such as removing degree requirements from job descriptions and focusing on hiring based on skills rather than credentials.

“People perform better and stay longer if you just start taking out degree requirements and actually shift your job descriptions in the direction of describing the skills that people need to do the job.”

About Nick

Nick is an award-winning learning strategist and the CEO of Shackleton Consulting. With extensive experience in learning and development, Nick has worked with top organizations to revolutionize how people learn in the workplace. He is known for his insights on learner engagement, performance-focused learning design, and the shift from content-driven education to experiential learning. His work continues to challenge traditional approaches and inspire innovative learning strategies worldwide.

You can find out more and get connected with Nick on LinkedIn.

Join the conversation!

We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode! Reach out to our podcast host on Linkedin to join the conversation. Don’t forget to subscribe to Learning at Large in your favorite podcast app, and leave us a 5-star rating if you enjoyed it. Thank you for joining us, and we’ll see you next time!

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Learning measurement on a shoestring

For too long, learning programs have relied on expensive tools and complex systems to measure impact. But what if organizations already have the data they need? Dr. Alaina Szlachta, author of Measurement and Evaluation on a Shoestring, is on a mission to help L&D professionals leverage existing resources for smarter evaluation. Hear why she believes measurement isn’t as complicated as it seems – and how learning leaders can drive impact with what’s already at their fingertips.

Watch the full podcast video

Top tips for effective measurement and evaluation

Don’t have time to listen now? Here’s a quick summary of what you’ll learn in this episode:

• Tapping into existing data: How to leverage data that’s right under your nose, instead of relying on expensive assessments.
• Why measurement matters: Why aligning measurement with organizational priorities is key for L&D success.
• Moving from skills to capabilities: The importance of shifting focus from skills to a more rounded capabilities approach.
• Breaking the “order-taker” cycle: How to move from being an “order-taker” to a strategic partner in learning.
• No magic metric, just smarter thinking: Taking a strategic, adaptable approach to evaluation instead of searching for one “magic metric”.

1. Tapping into existing data

Alaina explains how organizations have more data than they realize – Google calendars, call center logs, performance reports, and more. Instead of creating new measurement tools, learning leaders can tap into this existing data to analyze trends and track learning impact.

” We are swimming in data, just absolutely swimming in data. And so now if we take it into the workplace, just take a moment and imagine where all the data artifacts exist that help us to see what’s happening in the organization.”

2. Why measurement matters

For L&D professionals, demonstrating impact is critical. Without measurement, it’s impossible to know if learning initiatives are driving real business outcomes. Alaina, a former athlete, compares it to performance goals – without measurement, how do you know if you’re winning?

“I want to know, what are the expectations for me so that I can hit or exceed them. Because as an individual, I don’t want to just meet my goal. I want to surpass it.”

3. Moving from skills to capabilities

A key shift in L&D is focusing on capabilities rather than just skills. Skills assessments alone don’t capture the full picture – capabilities include access to the right tools, policies, and organizational support structures.

“We need to lean away from skills and into capabilities because if our environment’s not set up for success, then it doesn’t matter how skilled we are. We’re not going to be able to perform correctly.”

4. Breaking the “order-taker” cycle

Too often, L&D teams are handed a pre-determined solution without proper analysis. Alaina suggests pushing back and asking what problem needs to be solved, rather than simply delivering training.

“Anytime somebody comes to us with a solution and asks us to go deliver that solution, we need to get creative and critical. We need to change the conversation from taking the order to digging into what the performance is that we want to see changed.”

5. No magic metric, just smarter thinking

There is no single “magic metric” that can measure learning effectiveness. Instead, learning leaders must take a more strategic, adaptable approach to evaluating their programs.

“There is never going to be a magic metric that we can use every time. That oversimplification is what gets us in trouble because then we don’t see the whole picture.”

About Alaina

While working in academic and corporate roles, Alaina has developed a passion for magnifying the results of L&D through good data. She’s the founder and host of Measurement Made Easy – A community of practice elevating data literacy, and author of the book Measurement and Evaluation on a Shoestring. You can order your copy of Alaina’s book on her website.

You can find out more and get connected with Alaina on LinkedIn.

Join the conversation!

We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode! Reach out to our podcast host on Linkedin to join the conversation. Don’t forget to subscribe to Learning at Large in your favorite podcast app, and leave us a 5-star rating if you enjoyed it. Thank you for joining us, and we’ll see you next time!

Creating meaningful learning experiences at scale

Dr. Heidi Kirby is revolutionizing the world of learning and development (L&D). With a passion for creating meaningful learning experiences, she’s on a mission to align L&D strategies with business goals, all while keeping the learner at the center. In this podcast, Heidi shares her sharp insights, and a bold vision for the future of L&D.

Watch the full podcast video

Top tips for creating meaningful elearning

Don’t have time to listen now? Here are the key takeaways from Heidi:

• Adopt a learner-first mindset: Tailor learning initiatives to meet learners where they are and maximize impact.
• Align training with business goals: Speak the language of leadership and show measurable results to gain buy-in.
• Embrace continuous growth: As L&D professionals, staying relevant means committing to lifelong learning.
• Overcome challenges creatively: Turn obstacles like resistance to change into opportunities to innovate.
• Leverage technology and empathy: Combine data-driven insights with human connection to shape the future of L&D.

1. Adopt a learner-first mindset

Heidi emphasizes that successful learning initiatives start with understanding your audience. Whether it’s addressing their needs or designing content that resonates, putting learners first is the key to long-term success.

” I mean, a lot of the places are running like a pizza shop. Right? Like, they’re taking orders and they’re taking orders from anybody who will send them. So it’s structured in a very, in a way that’s gonna be very hit or miss for the audience…We can’t be effective unless we’re learner-focused. That’s always been at the heart of my work.”

2. Align training with business goals

For L&D to thrive, it needs to deliver measurable outcomes that matter to the business. Heidi highlights the importance of speaking the language of leadership and proving the value of training programs.

“One of the biggest challenges in L&D is proving its value to leadership. It’s not just about creating great content but showing how that content connects to business outcomes. If you can show measurable results – like improved performance or efficiency – you’ll get buy-in every time.”

3. Embrace continuous growth

As an advocate of lifelong learning, Heidi believes that staying relevant in the fast-paced world of L&D means committing to ongoing personal and professional development.

“For me, growth has been about always staying curious. From my time as a college English professor to leading instructional design teams, I’ve learned that L&D is constantly evolving. The more we learn, the better equipped we are to teach and inspire others.”

4. Overcome challenges creatively

Heidi shares strategies for turning common challenges, like resistance to change or limited resources, into opportunities to innovate and improve.

“Challenges are inevitable, whether it’s a tight budget or stakeholders who don’t see the value of training. But I’ve found that those constraints often push you to think outside the box. Some of the best solutions I’ve seen in L&D came from a place of necessity.”

5. Leverage technology and empathy

The future of L&D lies at the intersection of technology and human connection. Heidi envisions a world where data-driven insights and empathy come together to create transformative learning experiences.

“Technology is a tool, but empathy is what drives impact. When we use data to understand our learners and design with their needs in mind, we create experiences that don’t just teach but truly transform.”

About Heidi

Dr. Heidi Kirby is an L&D consultant with a mission to help organizations craft meaningful learning experiences. Drawing on her academic background and professional expertise, she works with companies to align learning strategies with business goals and learner needs.

Connect with Heidi on LinkedIn to learn more about her work.

Join the conversation!

We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode! Reach out to our podcast host on Linkedin to join the conversation. Don’t forget to subscribe to Learning at Large in your favorite podcast app, and leave us a 5-star rating if you enjoyed it. Thank you for joining us, and we’ll see you next time!

Joining Forces With The Brain: Lauren Waldman

For too long learning has happened without consideration of the underlying mental processes it involves. The results? We’re all working against the brain, rather than with it. And this is something that Lauren Waldman, Founder and Learning Scientist behind Learning Pirate, has set out to change. Hear why she’s on a mission to get L&D to lead with the science. In fact, she thinks everyone should better understand their brain.

Top tips for designing learning with science in mind

Don’t have time to listen now? Here are some top tips from Lauren:

• Work with the brain, not against it: Start focusing on what’s going on in the brain, so you can design learning more scientifically.
• Embrace the complexity of creating memories: Forming memories is a complex and time-consuming process. Understand how it works so you can embed your learning.
• Cultivate habits based on science: Rote memorization won’t deliver impact. Swap old learning habits for new behaviors that work with your brain’s processes.
• Get the operating guide to being human: Understanding the brain science provides some fundamental human skills. Apply this knowledge and transform everything you do.

1. Work with the brain, not against it

Learning isn’t automatic. A lot is happening in your brain when you’re developing a new skill or adapting your behavior. However, because these processes are unconscious, it can be easy to take them for granted.

Whether it’s stretching a learner’s cognitive load or dividing their attention, L&D can often fall into the trap of working against the brain. Lauren is on a mission to change this. She wants L&D to start focusing on what’s going on in the brain so they can design learning more scientifically.

“Once you know these things, there’s absolutely no going back. You cannot see your learning designs in the same way anymore. You cannot see the way that you engage with your own learning, or a conversation with somebody, or the people who are walking by you on the street [in the same way]. Everything changes the more that you get to understand the operational system itself. So, I think the question isn’t, why should we be working with what we know about the brain? But why aren’t we working with what we know about the brain?”

2. Embrace the complexity of creating memories

When you design learning, you’re asking somebody else’s brain to engage in creating memories. We’ve been driven by psychology to think of this as a simple process, but neuroscience has revealed a different picture.

Creating memories isn’t straightforward. It’s a complex process and takes time. Understanding how it works is the key to designing effective learning that embeds new knowledge, skills and behavior. Lauren explains that without it you can’t identify the right learning methods to use, let alone when, where or how to use them.

“Creating a memory, in psychology, is the process of encoding, storing and retrieving. That makes it sound pretty simple, right? I learned something. I encode it, I store it, I get it in there and then I just bring it back out when I want it. It makes it sound like it can happen a lot faster than it does. Whereas in neuroscience, when you look into the brain, it might have to grow a whole new piece of brain network to do this. The brain is expending a lot of energy and requires a lot of dedicated focus to learn and to create that memory. You might not be allowing for that time if you just think: encode it.”

3. Cultivate habits based on science

Most of us continue to learn in the same way that we did when we were in elementary school. Go into any library and you’re likely to see students reading, highlighting and making notes. This rote memorization may help you pass an exam, but will it have any longer-term impact?

Lauren says it’s time to swap our old learning habits for new ones. We need to change our behaviors and cultivate habits based on the underlying mechanisms of the brain. For example, recognize how spaced repetition can consolidate our memories. Rather than designing a standalone piece of learning, break things up. Provide pauses so there’s time for learning to diffuse.

“The underlying mechanisms of the brain that help us to change a behavior or cultivate a habit, those are the things that we don’t teach. And those are the things that organizations are still expecting to see changes of. We want the behavioral change, but we’re not going to teach you how to do it. We’re not going to give you the fundamental human skills to help you do that. And that’s definitely an issue in our designs, and in our working environments.”

4. Get the operating guide to being human

Of course, this knowledge won’t just help you design effective learning. These are fundamental human skills. They empower you to change the way you see and approach the world around you.

Lauren explains that she created the Joining Forces With Your Brain learning journey so she had the operating guide to herself. For example, if she’s frustrated when someone is talking in a meeting that she doesn’t want to be in, she understands why. She knows what’s happening to create this behavioral reaction and can do something about it.

“When you learn about these things for yourself first, then you can transfer it into everything that you’re doing – into your learning, into your learning designs, into your better communications, into your projects, into all of it. We contextualize it in learning because that’s the profession that we’re in. But fundamentally, you’re learning about how you operate as a human being. And these are skills we can transfer anywhere.”

A quick recap

Tired of seeing learning that’s at odds with our underlying mental processes, Lauren has developed four strategies to make brain science central to L&D’s work.

1. Join forces with the brain, rather than work against it.
2. Get to grips with how memories are created so you can you design learning that sticks.
3. Build better learning habits and behaviours that are grounded in science.
4. Don’t just use this knowledge for better L&D. Apply these fundamental human skills in every area of your life.

Want to find out more? Check out the full podcast.

About Lauren

After 10 years in L&D, Lauren founded Learning Pirate in 2017 with the aim to search for learning treasure and venture into new territory for the industry. She’s passionate about helping organizations work better by designing learning more scientifically.

You can find out more at the Learning Pirate website and get connected with Lauren on LinkedIn.

Join the conversation!

We’d love to hear your thoughts on our podcast, so feel free to get in touch with our podcast host, at kirstie.greany@elucidat.com. As always, don’t forget to subscribe to Learning at Large in your favorite podcast app and leave us a 5-star rating if you enjoyed it. Thank you for joining us, and see you next time.

Addressing The Elephant In The Room With Effective Learning Evaluation: Aliana Szlachta

There’s never been a better moment to address L&D’s persistent elephant in the room: evaluation. Advances in technology mean measurement and evaluation is now more accessible than ever. That’s why Alaina Szlachta, doctor in education and human behavior, thinks it’s time we woke up to all the data around us. Hear why she says this starts with asking the right questions. Explore how you can make data-informed decisions, and dive in and discover some ways Artificial Intelligence (AI) can help.

Top tips for effective learning measurement and evaluation

Don’t have time to listen now? Here are some top tips from Alaina:

• Address the elephant in the room: L&D needs to be accountable for delivering business impact. And this can’t happen without effective methods for measurement and evaluation.
• Wake up to the data around you: We’re surrounded by data. Get comfortable finding and working with these numbers. Develop data literacy through practice.
• Ask the right questions at the right times: Don’t jump straight into the data. Start by asking questions to identify the best metrics to measure your impact.
• Get experimenting with AI data analysis: Use tech to save time. AI tools can sift through the data, so you can focus on the analysis.

Interested in even more tips? Here are 20 learning measurement ideas to show impact and improve performance. 

1. Address the elephant in the room

For some departments – like Product, Sales and Marketing – measurement and evaluation is part of the fiber of their work. But historically, L&D professionals haven’t had this accountability. They haven’t consistently been asked: What is the outcome? Have you met the mark? What are the numbers behind what you’ve done?

For Alaina, this is the biggest challenge. Not only are L&D unused to the practicalities of measuring impact or calculating Return on Investment (ROI). They’re not designing learning experiences with an intended outcome in mind.

”The elephant in the room is that often learning programs aren’t designed in ways that actually facilitate behavior change…There’s a lot that goes into making sure that we’re designing and supporting people for making the changes that we wish to see. And if we don’t design for the kind of change that we wish, or even know what’s the change that we want to see, then we have nothing to measure.”

2. Wake up to the data around you

With technology making measurement more accessible than ever before, it’s time for L&D to catch up. But without the fundamentals of data literacy, this can be intimidating.

Alaina explains that you don’t need a doctorate to get data literate. It’s about being comfortable working with numbers. And you can only do this through practice. Whether at work or in your personal life, look for the available data. Practice using it to make more informed decisions.

”Wake yourself up to the data that’s around you. We’re swimming in it…And it’s hard for us to [see it and] name it, to call it out and to talk about it. Today and going into the future, we’re swimming in data. Think about your Apple Watch and how much data they’re getting just from one small device. Now multiply that by our cell phones, Zoom, our cars… data literally lives all around us. We just have to open our eyes and then – more importantly – do something with it.”

3. Ask the right questions at the right times

Official standards have been released for L&D metrics and measurement. These are great for getting everyone speaking a common language. But before you can use these standards, you need to get to grips with the fundamentals.

Don’t overcomplicate things by jumping straight into the data. For Alaina, effective measurement always starts with asking the right questions. Before you measure anything, you need to know what you’re doing, and why. If an employee is engaging in a learning experience, what do you want to see when it’s complete? Is it changing performance, creating a feeling or providing knowledge? If you’re aiming for a simple outcome, you won’t need a complex measurement strategy.

”If we don’t ask the question: ‘What are we doing and why?’ and get really clear on what’s the point of this program in the first place, then how do we know that we’ve been successful? That’s when data can come into play. But it can be as simple as: Do people know that they can go to the intranet or our LMS? Or that they can go to these three people to get their questions answered? Then our people are using those resources: the people, the technology, the systems and services. That’s a really easy thing to track and monitor.”

4. Get experimenting with AI data analysis

With so much data everywhere, getting started with evaluation can be daunting. So, it’s no wonder that people are looking to technology to help them find that magic metric.

AI presents lots of opportunities. Although it can’t tell you what you’re aiming to achieve, it can help you speed up your data analysis. For example, Alaina used a program to record a series of discussions. She knew it had an AI tool built in and wanted to find out what it could do, so she started experimenting. For each transcript, she asked the tool questions about the data. What are the main themes in each conversation? And, could the tool pull out quotes representing these main themes? The results were great and it saved Alaina lots of time.

”My first call to action, before I say anything else, is start experimenting with these tools… If you’re not already using technology to save time, and to help you sift through qualitative and quantitative data, there are tools that you can use to make that process much easier. That’s where we are today. And then getting comfortable with that will make it so much easier for you to add more complexity in terms of what generative AI can do for you.”

A quick recap

Want to make sure you’re designing learning experiences with data in mind? Alaina has four strategies for embracing learning measurement and evaluation.

• Start making evaluation a priority at the beginning of every learning project.
• Recognize the data that surrounds you and practice analyzing it.
• Don’t jump into the data without asking what you’re aiming to achieve.
• Explore how AI tools can help you speed up the process.

Want to find out more? Check out the full podcast.

About Alaina

While working in academic and corporate roles, Alaina has developed a passion for magnifying the results of L&D through good data. She’s the founder and host of Measurement Made Easy – A community of practice elevating data literacy.

You can find out more and get connected with Alaina on LinkedIn.

Join the conversation!

We’d love to hear your thoughts on our podcast, so feel free to get in touch at kirstie.greany@elucidat.com. As always, don’t forget to subscribe to Learning at Large in your favorite podcast app and leave us a 5-star rating if you enjoyed it. Thank you for joining us, and see you next time.

Delivering Decentralized Learning: Geraldine Murphy

Producing effective learning at scale isn’t straightforward. Add a decentralized learning model to the mix and things can get even more complicated. We found out how Geraldine Murphy, global digital learning leader, approaches this challenge at one of the world’s largest drinks brands. Hear how she’s driving standards against a backdrop of constant demand from a range of operating companies. Discover the skill and mindset you need to balance global strategies with local needs.

Top tips for delivering decentralized learning at scale

Don’t have time to listen now? Here are some top tips from Geraldine:

1. Add some glocal flavor: Your learning ecosystem needs to work across your business. Combine your global offer with the best local initiatives.
2. Keep it relevant and meet demand: In a decentralized model, one size doesn’t fit all. If learning is going to have impact, it needs to be relevant and delivered quickly.
3. Move from reactive to strategic: Step back from the rush to meet demand. Explore collaborative ways of working that meet the whole business’ needs.
4. Create a framework to harness expertise: There’s a wealth of experience in your organization. Develop a flexible framework empowers your people to produce effective learning.

1. Add some glocal flavor

Responsible for the development of 90,000 employees across the globe, Geraldine is delivering learning at a huge scale. But it’s the structure that makes things really complex.

With 85 operating companies working largely autonomously, creating a learning ecosystem that’s right for everyone isn’t straight forward. On the one hand you have the global strategic goals of the business, and on the other the day-to-day needs of the individual companies. Don’t focus on one to the detriment of the other. For Geraldine, it’s all about balance.

“I’m trying to bring a bit of that glocal flavor to the business. I think that’s where we’re going to be able to make the most traction and get the best outcomes – if we can surface the best of the global offer and the local initiatives, and also utilize the wealth of experience in L&D across those operating companies. So that it doesn’t always feel from a top-down global perspective.”

2. Keep it relevant and meet demand

When your organization has lots of functions with a variety of needs, learning can be very different across the business. So, what does good look like?

Geraldine highlights that there isn’t one thing that works. Whatever you do in L&D, it needs to be highly relevant and contextualized. It has to be available in local languages with local reference points. And with business gathering pace every single day, it’s critical that learning is delivered quickly.

“I can’t say one thing that works. But it really is about addressing those functional needs. Making sure it’s adaptable and relevant and delivered quickly. Because one thing that we struggle with in this kind of decentralized model, and at a global level, is keeping up and producing at the pace that’s required.”

3. Move from reactive to strategic

Geraldine joined her company last November. At that time, the organization was still in the post COVID digital learning delivery rush.

Now out of that push to deliver, she’s been able to take a step back to think about how L&D partner with the business to get the best outcomes. This means moving from being reactive to strategic. It starts with L&D developing new collaborative ways of working. Whether it’s triaging business needs or cascading strategy through the organization, it needs to be a collaboration.

“If you can make a direct link, and be part of an active community of practice, that’s going to make the cascading of that strategy more impactful, because you can talk about it. It’s not just a piece of paper. It’s not just a tagline. We want it to feel real and feel different for the business. And in that way, we have to be really clear on the impacts and the gains for everybody working in L&D across the business.”

4. Create a framework to harness expertise

With limited inhouse learning design resource, Geraldine’s business relies on their internal experts to develop learning. These employees are experts in their field, but they’re not experts in delivering learning.

If these SMEs are going to produce learning that delivers impact, they need a framework for success. And with a range a business needs to meet, this can’t be too strict. The set of principles need to be clear and consistent, but also flexible so everyone can bring their best to the table.

“We can’t do it alone. For [our complex] business challenges, it can’t just be the L&D team addressing this alone. It has to be done in partnership. Subject Matter Experts own the content. We own the framework. And together, we can create something more impactful.”

A quick recap

Delivering effective L&D isn’t always easy in large, complex organizations. Geraldine has four strategies for developing a decentralized learning model that maintains standards.

• Combine the best of your global offer and local initiatives.
• Make sure all learning is relevant and delivered quickly.
• Move from reactive to strategic so you can meet the real business needs.
• Harness your internal expertise with a flexible framework for quality learning.

Want to find out more? Check out the full podcast.

About Geraldine

Since completing her teacher training just under 15 years ago, Geraldine has held a variety of positions in further and higher education. More recently she’s pivoted to the corporate setting as Global Digital Learning Lead for one of the world’s largest drinks brand.

You can find out more and get connected with Geraldine on LinkedIn.

On Geraldine’s reading list

Find out what reading informs Geraldine’s approach to delivering impactful learning experiences.

Surrounded by Idiots: The Four Types of Human Behaviour (or, How to Understand Those Who Cannot Be Understood), Thomas Erikson

Geraldine recommends this book for tips to help you deal with stakeholders in large and diverse businesses.

Writing Is Designing: Words And The User Experience, Michael J. Metts, Andy Welfle, Nick Madden

This book is a practical look at how writing is critical to crafting an effective user experience.

Looking for more reading tips? Check out our book blog.

Join the conversation!

We’d love to hear your thoughts on our podcast, so feel free to get in touch with our podcast host, at kirstie.greany@elucidat.com. As always, don’t forget to subscribe to Learning at Large in your favorite podcast app and leave us a 5-star rating if you enjoyed it. Thank you for joining us, and see you next time.

Avoiding The DE&I Tick Box: Shola Aminu

Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DE&I) is something no learning leader can ignore. If you’re going to change behavior in your organization, you can’t just reach for an off-the-shelf compliance module. That’s why Shola Aminu, Global Director, Diversity, Equity & Inclusion at Ogilvy, is putting DE&I front of mind in his organization. Find out how his pioneering approaches make it anything but a tick box exercise. Explore how your business can take every employee on an authentic journey with DE&I.

Top tips to create an effective DE&I initiative

Don’t have time to listen now? Here are some top tips from Shola:

1. Don’t make DE&I a tick box exercise: Use a hybrid of compulsory and optional learning to engage people in effective behavior change.
2. Create a learning journey, not just a course: Training is valuable, but its impact is limited. Rather than a one off course, design a journey with meaningful touchpoints. 
3. Start with the context: Don’t rush ahead with your content. You can’t design an effective solution until you’ve understood your organization’s context.
4. Make it seamless and authentic: DE&I shouldn’t be limited to your initiative. Lock in place policies and practices to make DE&I authentic to your organization.

1. Don’t make DE&I a tick box exercise

DE&I is often grouped with other compliance training topics. Subjects that are mandated by legislation or regulation that people have to be trained in.

Shola sees some benefits of making training compulsory. It can help you achieve certain engagement KPIs, such as completion rates. You can create consistent organization-wide actions, such as employee commitments or pledges. But, if you’re making people complete your training, will it lead to real change? 

“When thinking about behavior change, I’ve just always had that belief that [mandating training] doesn’t necessarily lead to change. I think leaders should lean towards a programme that’s a hybrid of compulsory and optional. In my prior role, I worked on the expansion of a DE&I learning journey, and the engagement and vibrance that you get at every level, at every stage of the learning journey when you engage leaders is phenomenal…It creates that fear of missing out. It has folks who are passive interested in seeing what it’s all about. And that’s how you kickstart that catalyst for behavior change.”

2. Create a learning journey, not just a course

When it comes to DE&I, training is valuable, but its impact is limited. It’s great for raising awareness and building knowledge about issues. But it doesn’t necessarily lead to behavior change. 

Shola is clear that any DE&I initiative needs to be an ongoing learning journey with a variety of real world touchpoints. Engage your learners in a long-term commitment to change. Help them try things out and discover what works for their team. When you do that, you don’t need to make learning compulsory, as people spread the word. You have ambassadors on the ground and it markets itself.

“The challenge for most leaders is: what’s next? You’ve run this great program or series of training modules and you’ve made the investment. You’ve even sparked curiosity amongst folks, but what actually happens next?…I just try and take that lens and take the leaders on the journey itself. It definitely takes a bit more time. I would say that [you need] a 12-month window with various touchpoints and activation moments when we’re going to ramp up how we engage with our team.”

3. Start with the context

So, if you’re looking to design an effective DE&I learning journey, where do you start? Don’t rush ahead with learning content. You can’t begin to design an effective learning solution until you’ve understood the context. 

Digging deeper from the start will help you get to the real DE&I needs in your business. Shola suggests starting with simple questions. What does DE&I mean at your organization? And what are the expectations of your people?

“Do folks even understand what the expectation of them is in this business? What are the business’s values beyond the commercial, like collaboration etc? What is the company’s stance on this subject area? And what do we expect of you – no matter your level or function? If that isn’t clear, it doesn’t really matter what comes after, because it hasn’t set the kind of foundation for how we work.”

4. Make it seamless and authentic

DE&I shouldn’t be limited to your initiative. Even the most engaging learning journey won’t be effective, if your business isn’t committed to diversity, equity and inclusion. Whether it’s inclusive hiring or flexible working, when effective policies and practices are locked in, DE&I becomes seamless and authentic.

Shola highlights three areas that are key: commitment from leadership, consistent resource allocation and aligned communication. With these in place, you start to see the impact of your work. And, whether it’s a growing sense of belonging or a truly inclusive environment, you can start celebrating these successes.

“You start to notice the change of an organization, when you have policies set in place that meet various different folks’ unique needs. So, people feel better. People are referring their mates to come and work. And you slowly start to see the image of your organization change but also the culture and how people feel, how they operate.”

A quick recap

Too often seen as a one-off compliance activity, Shola has four strategies to make your DE&I initiative holistic, collaborative and impactful. 

• Use a mix of compulsory and optional learning to support real behavior change 
• Create a learning journey with real world touchpoints, not just an elearning course
• Understand what DE&I means for your organization and the expectations of your people
• Lock in policies and processes that support your DE&I efforts to create a diverse and inclusive workplace

Want to find out more? Check out the full podcast. 

About Shola

Shola has over 10 years’ multinational professional experience in a variety of roles. He has a passion for DE&I and expertise in implementing initiatives that deliver organizational change, increase employee engagement, and achieve corporate governance goals. 

You can find out more and get connected with Shola on LinkedIn.

On Shola’s reading list

Check out the book that Shola wishes he had at the start of his DE&I leader journey.

DE&I Deconstructed: Your No-Nonsense Guide to Doing the Work and Doing It Right, Lily Zheng

Shola recommends that anyone working in L&D and DE&I should have this book. It takes a human focus and looks at the impact our work can have. 

Join the conversation!

We’d love to hear your thoughts on our podcast, so feel free to get in touch with our podcast host, at kirstie.greany@elucidat.com. As always, don’t forget to subscribe to Learning at Large in your favorite podcast app and leave us a 5-star rating if you enjoyed it. Thank you for joining us, and see you next time.